Now, if you’ve ever gotten a toothache from eating something cold, like ice cream — well, tonight, scientists at the University of Chicago might have discovered the reason why. And it could go all the way back to ancient fish some 500 million years ago. But when you’re looking, you’re really feeling it in my teeth, right?
Well, we’re joined tonight by the lead author of a new study out today, Dr. Yara. Jared, thanks for being with us tonight.
Thank you so much for having us.
Let’s start from the beginning. What have you learned about teeth? Explain that to us.
So, our teeth come from a very long and strange lineage of structures from ancient fish. A lot of people don’t believe me — or my dentist friends don’t believe me — when I tell them that our teeth actually started outside the mouth as the scales of really ancient fish.
Okay, that kind of explains a little bit though. But why did you make this discovery and why is it so important?
One of the questions that we look at is why we have any hard parts at all. Why are we not just goopy animals? Lots of perfectly good animals are goop — jellyfish, amoebas. Why do we have these hard parts? And so we look in the fossil record for that. One of the things we’re trying to figure out is the history of teeth and how they came about. And so we looked at some fossils and realized they had a lot of sensitive structures.
Make the connection to fish for us.
This is an old fish, 500 million years ago. We had the museum on last week and we were holding fossils that I think were only like 200 million years. So you’re going to 500 million? How did you make that connection between our teeth and an ancient fish’s teeth?
These early scales that are on the outside of the body, that look like teeth and are made of the same stuff that our teeth are made of — dentine and enamel, you probably heard those words from your dentist — we see those exact same tissues in the fossil record on the outside of these ancient fish, as we do in our own mouths. And some modern fish still have them on the outside, like catfish and skates and sharks.
So you’re talking to two people who really focus on their teeth. All right, doctor, you’re in our business. We’re always making sure — now we kind of thought we know a little bit about teeth. So we were thinking the dentine and the nerve, like when we eat ice cream, we would think that’s a nerve or maybe some gum erosion.
But you’re a paleontologist. So what are your dentist friends saying when you tell them about this discovery?
Well, they definitely tell me to stop looking at rocks and start looking at real animals. But what’s really interesting about looking at rocks is that we can ask certain questions like, where did dense dentine start? We know that it started about 500 to 460 million years ago. But what we can’t ask is, “Hey, does it hurt when I touch your tooth, your outside tooth?” And those questions were best asked to modern fish. That’s why we had to work with sharks and catfish to actually test if their teeth that are on the outside are sensitive.
So what happens, I guess, 500 million years from now? What are our teeth going to do? Are they going to change like these fish’s teeth have changed? Have you guys looked into that?
We definitely assume that things will continue to change as we continue to use them. I guess it would be best if, you know, we had thicker enamel for all the acidic foods we eat, but it’s really hard to predict where evolution is going to go.
Yeah, I use enamel toothpaste to focus on the enamel, use gum toothpaste to focus on that. I want to take you back — apparently you did a college thing, an all-nighter at the Argonne Laboratory when you were studying all this research. How did that work out? And how did your teeth work out? Did you all eat something? How did you do it?
Basically, when we’re trying to look at these really tiny fossils, these tiny, tiny ancient teeth, you really need a really strong way to image them. So we went to Argonne, which is a synchrotron — it’s basically a particle accelerator that makes X-rays that are a hundred billion times brighter than your doctor’s X-ray. That’s how we can image fossils. From that, we were able to image something like 200 fossils in one night because they have some amazing facilities over there. I had an amazing team with me. We stayed up all night just switching out samples, imaging things, all night so we could figure out: ah, these teeth, the structures that we’re seeing inside them, on the outside, are really very similar to those that we have today inside them.
We’re going to get a Jeopardy question, right, Cheryl?
One day for sure. “What is the connection to our teeth?” It’s going to be an ancient fish.
Well, full circle — when I went to college, that’s what I wanted to be originally, was a dentist. Okay, all right. So I changed my mind. And here we are talking about teeth on the show. This is fascinating because now I’m going to call my dentist, because she’s always talking about enamel and teeth and, you know, protecting your teeth.
Continued success to you and your team. We really enjoy learning a couple new things, and it’s great that it’s happening here in this wonderful city. Thank you, doctor, for your time tonight.
Keep coming back with new information too, and let us know how we can keep our teeth.Tell us how we can do that. I think that’s the important — doing the right thing, which is brush and floss and take care of your gums, and all that. Doctor, thank you. All right, thank you so much.